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 The Whore of Babylon
 whore of babylon
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n/a
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118 Posts

Posted - May 14 2002 :  06:55:52 AM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
even this interpretation is not liked by
some people i think this is the best one i know.
it is a description of the catholic church.
(not of the old rome because the revelation
speaks from things to come in the last days
and the fall of the roman empire is hundreds of years away. furthermore rome hasn t been
destroyed until now)

"One of the seven angels who had the seven
bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show
you the punishment of the great prostitute,
who sits on many waters. With her the kings of
the earth committed adultery and the
inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with
the wine of her adulteries."
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit
into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on
a scarlet beast that was covered with
blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten
horns. The woman was dressed in purple and
scarlet, and was glittering with gold,
precious stones and pearls. She held a golden
cup in her hand, filled with abominable things
and the filth of her adulteries. This title
was written on her forehead: |scMYSTERY
|scBABYLON THE GREAT |scTHE MOTHER OF
PROSTITUTES |scAND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE
EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the
blood of the saints, the blood of those who
bore testimony to Jesus."
(17,1-6)

short interpretation:

"who sits on many waters": means you can find it in every country on earth

"kings of the earth":mundan power whereas the whore is the spiritual power
the collaboration between mundan and spiritual
power in order to gain power is "the adultery".

"wine of her adulteries": the twisted doctrines which have not much with the bible and jesus to do.

luxury of the woman: the immense wealth
of the catholic church (remember: "Do not
store up for yourselves treasures on earth,
where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves
break in and steal. But store up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and
rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not
break in and steal. For where your treasure
is, there your heart will be also."
)

"covered with blasphemous names": the titles and names of the pope like vicarius filii dei, potifex maximus (title from babylon, taken over by romans and then from
church) and of course "holy father"
(matthew 23,9: "And do not call anyone on
earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and
he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called
'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the
Christ"
)

"drunk with the blood of the saints":
the countless number of people and christian movements murdered in the middle age. there
were many christian streams in middleage
eradicated by church. see also 19,2
"for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his
servants."
[i]
"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven
heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
They are also seven kings. Five have fallen,
one is, the other has not yet come; but when
he does come, he must remain for a little
while."
(17,9)

rome is also called the town of the seven hills, namely Kapitol, Palatin, Aventin,
Caelius,Esquilin, Viminal und Quirinal.
maybe the names of the hills corresponds
to roman emperors (kings) but i dont know.
[i]
"Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the
size of a large millstone and threw it into
the sea, and said: "With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
The music of harpists and musicians, flute
players and trumpeters, will never be heard in
you again. No workman of any trade
will ever be found in you again. The sound of
a millstone will never be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp will never shine in you
again. The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.
Your merchants were the world's great men.
By your magic spell all the nations were led
astray. In her was found the blood of prophets
and of the saints, and of all who have been
killed on the earth."
(18,21-24)

the boulder is maybe an atomic bomb dropped in
the mediterranean sea. i think it was irlmayer
who had a vision of an atomic bomb in this
sea.

why the word "babylon"? because many rituals, doctrins and signs are pagan and most of them
are babylonic origin. it is too much to go
into detail so only a few things which are
from babylon/pagan:

virgin mary cult, easter, ritual clothes,
titles, various objects and signs, some high days like christmas, purgatory-doctrine and so on

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n/a
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117 Posts

Posted - May 14 2002 :  12:33:28 PM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hallo Freddie,

although I'm not an expert concerning religion, I think the theory that the Catholic church being the Whore of Babylon has some points going for it. Although I wish it would be otherwise.

If we look back into history, there was much crime and violence inflicted in the name of the Catholic church. For example:

- Crusades not only against the Muslims, but also Jews and non-Catholic Christians.
- Burning of "witches" on the stake.
- Blocking of scientific progress (flat world, sun rotating around earth etc.) resulting in persecution and often liquidation of everyone thinking different.

Today we have the recent scandals about priests abusing children.

Of course, it wouldn't be fair to throw every member of the Catholic church into one pot. Most of them are certainly very decent people.

As a Protestant I don't agree with the concept of a "Holy Father" and several other things. I'm by no means an anti-Catholic, though. To each his own, I always say.

I think that the Catholic church of today is indeed very remote from the original stock of Christians living in the first centuries AD. But aren't we all more or less?

I could imagine that we will see a drastic renewal or rather change of the Catholic church at some point, as indicated by several prophecies.

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n/a
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117 Posts

Posted - May 14 2002 :  1:40:02 PM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've found another theory on the net about the "Woman riding the Beast". It could be Europe!

Read it here for yourself:

Revelation 13: Is Europe the woman named "Babylon" in the Book of Revelation? -- A Bible prophecy and New Age analysis of the Future of Europe

Europe is converting to the Euro, the Euro being a new currency. This conversion to the Euro has been a source of economic chaos and concern in Europe in recent years.
Another issue for Europe is that it is geographically close to Russia, and Russia is a military superpower that is going through a period of instability, because of difficulty in converting its economy from Communism to a Western economic system. This astrology / New Age/ Bible prophecy web site , "Revelation 13: Astrology for the New Age", includes a section suggesting that Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States could be the red ten horned beast in the Book of Revelation in the Bible, and Europe could be the woman named "Babylon" who rides him in Revelation 17. (Since Europa in mythology was a woman riding a bull). Note that geographically Western Europe being next to Russia, would agree with this idea of Europa riding the beast Russia. Revelation, the last chapter of the Christian Bible, consists of prophecies of disastrous future events, that many people believe are occurring now with the new millennium beginning. It is my suggestion that the Antichrist (a Satanic imitation of Christ), a great dictator, is Russia President Putin, who has recently come to power in Russia, and that Russia is the red 7-head 10-horned beast of the Bible's Book of Revelation (the 10 horns being the Confederation of Independent States, led by Russia, although there are more than 10 in it now). This is an angry, dangerous beast in the Book of Revelation. I know that many of you reading this will say that Osama bin Laden is more likely to be the Antichrist, but Osama bin Laden is too evil; the Antichrist will appear to be a good man, in fact the Antichrist will appear to be the saviour of the world. What could happen is that Russian President Putin will help bring about the defeat of these Moslem terrorists, and therefore President Putin will be praised as the saviour of humanity. But later by 2007 I think that Russia will become angry towards the West.
Another image in the Book of Revelation chapter 17 is the woman who rides the red 10-horned Beast, that I believe is Russia. The woman and the Beast are friends, but eventually the Beast turns on her, and she is burnt with fire. I think this woman is Europe, since the symbol of Europe is the mythological Europa riding a bull. Russia and Europe have cooperated in economic and political matters in recent years, but I think the relationship could turn unfriendly eventually. Eventually this could mean that Russia will make war against Europe.
Also, the woman in Revelation 17 has a cup in her hand full of filthiness-- I think that could be Mad Cow Disease (BSE), spread by improper cattle raising practices.

Eventually Russia will turn against Europe and burn Europa with fire. In Revelation 17, the 10 horns of the beast are 10 kings who are in league with him, I think this is the C.I.S., and the seven heads of the Beast would be the heads of the seven districts that President Putin has divided Russia into.
Revelation 17 (King James Version):

17:3 "...and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the (woman), and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

Note also that the woman is described in Revelation 17:6 as "drunk with the blood of saints", I believe this is referring to Europe's long history of wars, having seen more wars in the last two thousand years than anywhere else on earth, the worst wars being World War 1 and 2. The woman is described as a great city in Revelation 17:18, and in 17:15 it says that the woman consists of many peoples, nations, and languages. This also agrees with the woman being Europe.

My astrology / New Age/ Bible prophecy web site link below, Revelation13.net, on the other pages of "Revelation 13: Astrology for the New Age", includes a discussion of the whether the events described in the Book of Revelation are occuring now. See the rest of this "Revelation 13: Astrology for the New Age, Prophecies of the Future" web site for more on this and other subjects, and my astrology / New Age / Bible prophecy predictions of world events for the next 10 years.

Please link to this web site! To help me spread my message to the world! This site is:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Title: "Revelation 13: Astrology for the New Age, Prophecies of the Future"

Copyright 1998-2002 by T. Chase. All rights reserved.

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n/a
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118 Posts

Posted - May 14 2002 :  5:45:11 PM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hello tolwin,

alter schwabe :-)

it were easier to answer in german but i think
the other board members would stone us to death :-))

i think this interpretation is completly wrong. just my humble opinion.
i know much interpretations of much passages
of revelations but this one is not very likely.

you can only read out of a text what you can read in; so i am always looking for different
interpretations in order to have something to compare.

it was outstanding for me that interpretations
are varying from the country were the interpreter come from. american interpretations are completely different than
such from europe or other parts of the world.
on american christian sites your will find
only one enemy: the un, europe or germany
on europen sites: russia or communism
the rest of the world: america is the snake

who is right? maybe everybody a little bit; only if you consider all views you can get to an objectively opionion.

there are opinions too that the revelation is
not a prophecy however it is a symbolical
creation myth. but i dont share this opinion.

to europe:

-the town with seven hills is a very
clear sign of rome but rome is not the capital of europe

-"adultery with kings on earth" means the conspiracy withe a spiritual migth and a mundan might; europe is only a mundan might

...
there a a few points more which could disprove
this interpretation but it is too difficult for me to tell in english.

here are other items who the whore could be:

- old roman empire
- united states
- united nations

there are items which are true in every interpretation for example th UN has 10
members in a council ( i dont know the exact name)

anyhow, i would rate the differnt views like
this: (most probably first)

1: catholic church (fittest best)
2: roman empire (fittest second best)
3: united nations
4: US
5: europe (that doesn t fit in any way)

greetings from nuernberg
freddie


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n/a
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117 Posts

Posted - May 15 2002 :  03:59:25 AM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Freddie,

first of all: I'm NOT a Suebian! I'm living in the north of Baden, close to Palatinate and Hesse. I'm proud to be a Kurpfaelzer! I hope you didn't want to
insult me. Hehe, just kidding!

One thing about your listing of candidates for the "whore": What else is the European Union but the (attempt of) a revival of the Roman Empire? If you study some remarks by top European politicians you recognize that this is certainly one of the motivations behind the whole EU project. Prodi himself was talking about the prospect of a European super power (however remote this may be from coming true).

Alright, the aim might be not exactly a second Roman Empire, but perhaps more something in the line of Charlemagne's Frankish empire. Charlemagne is still in high credit here, as one can see with the annual Charlemagne price (Karlspreis) awarded in the German city of Aachen for "efforts towards European unification". Even Bill Clinton received this price once. This year the new Euro currency was awarded with the price.

By the way, if you consider Nostradamus and other prophecy something like this may come true in the future. Either as a result of the successful defense against the Russian invasion or by other means.

In conclusion, I wouldn't take Europe completely out of the equation at this point.

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n/a
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118 Posts

Posted - May 15 2002 :  05:17:18 AM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hello tolwin,

"first of all: I'm NOT a Suebian! I'm living in the north of Baden, close to Palatinate and Hesse. I'm proud to be a Kurpfaelzer!"

as I said: a suebian :-))) all from baden-wuertemberg are suebians or am I wrong?

to europe: i am not sure if this will hit the
symbol of the whore. europe was never a
homogeneously construction.

and the new european union is, by the way, the
biggest **** ever invented in mankind. at least in the actual form. it is a europe of
the global players and big companies, not for
the people. money will rule, not democrazy.

for example all national laws and standards
concerning ecology and health will be leveled
to the country with the least and poorest
limit value. therefore vitamins in food are
lowered by law.

all german archievements in ecology will be
overthrown. food ingredients which were
forbidden are now allowed in whole europe only
because one european country allow them in its
national law. and this act is called
"harmoniously adjustment of laws" :-)
orwell greets you. you know, war is peace :-))

just wait, in a few years we have social and
ecological conditions like in america and
russia :-)))

greetings
freddie


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n/a
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117 Posts

Posted - May 15 2002 :  06:12:50 AM  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Freddie,

you really cracked me up with your last post. I had to be careful not to laugh out loud here in the office (concerning the Suebians and the danger of Russian/American conditions coming to Europe).

How about this: You MUST be a Bavarian because you live in the state of Bavaria, right? If you're a real Frank you would jump into my face by now!

About Europe, yes there's too much watering down by these compromises as you have mentioned. I hate the EU bureaucracy as much as anyone. Mind you, I'm not against the EU as such - I'd just like a different approach by giving much more power to the ELECTED European parliament in Strasbourg versus the UNELECTED EU commission waterhead in Brussels!

But I guess we're drifting away from the main issue here. Who's the Whore of Babylon? I maintain my position that Europe (or the EU) remains a hot candidate.

Greetings from sunny Mannheim,
Tolwin

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KAT
New Member



United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - Sep 02 2008 :  3:12:56 PM  Show Profile Send KAT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always thought Margret Thatcher was the whore of bablylon after all she did sell hers and her nations soul to the god of free market capitalism, I think his name is Mamon.

That was also part of the reason I thought Ronald Reagan was the anti-christ.

Some people will say she wasn't adulterous but as far as I can see if your main concern is supposed to be the good of your people ( = marrige to the people) but you start doing things for the good of the market then that is commiting adultery.



Knowing the human race as you do,
Why would you not believe in conspiracy theories..? :K.T.
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KAT
New Member



United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - Sep 10 2008 :  1:07:26 PM  Show Profile Send KAT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After reading Mikes new page about Sarah Palin and the discription by John the Revalator some ideas struck me.

She rides a scarlet beast....The Republican embelum is a red (scarlet) Elephant.

She is dunk on the blood of the saints, etc.... I believe she is a Roman Catholic (not a crime I admit, and I am not certain of that connection) but "drunk on the blood" could be said to mean being excessively religious to the point of ignoring other reasons and motivations for doing things.

She is a Mother of a Harlot (not nessasarly my opinion, but from the view of a 1st century religious fanatic..?).. her daughter has had sex and got pregnant out of wedlock.

Does anybody else think these are points worth investigating.




Knowing the human race as you do,
Why would you not believe in conspiracy theories..? :K.T.
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mm2001
Forum Admin



USA
1127 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2008 :  12:10:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit mm2001's Homepage Send mm2001 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KAT,

If you do notice, I have been moving in the direction that there are two whores (or, if you will, one real whore/harlot and a 'whore leader'). I really do believe that if we are going to personify the women mentioned in Rev 17 and Rev 18 (and most eschatologists never even consider personifying the so-called 'whore of babylon' for some reason), we must see Rev 17 as being one woman and Rev 18 another woman, both linked to a global 'whore that sitteth upon many waters', a kind of mega-Babylon or global Babylon.

Actually Rev 18 speaks a good deal more about the nation and city of 'Babylon the great' than it does about the woman leading her. All we really know about the woman in Rev 18 is that:

1) She will fornicate with many kings (remember that in Jesus' time, money and transactions were looked upon as filthy enterprises, money lenders, money changers, and traders were looked upon as whores of a different stripe, and transactions were comparable to acts of fornication, thus Christ was really upset seeing money lenders in the temple). Thus, the woman will conduct much trade with many leaders. This becomes obvious as we explore the theme of the Babylon of Rev 18.

2) She will reign as a queen (president or head of state will do).

3) She will enjoy the prestige of her position so much that even the prospect of being a widow will not cause her to mourn (either that or she will be celibate).

4) She will revel in her luxuries.

I can't say that point 3 applies well to Sarah Palin at this time, but point 2, a 'queen' (head of state) she would indeed become if McCain died in office, point 1 goes with the job, and point 4 is not all that remarkable.

Most references to the whore in Rev 18 is to the whore-ishness of the nation and its people, that they are decadent and self-loving and worship false gods. The queen reigns over a whore nation, Babylon the great, a whore nation that, in turn, is an integral part Mystery, Babylon, the mega-Babylon or global Babylon introduced in Rev 17.

What is emphasised again and again about this whore nation, Babylon the great, is that it is a great economic power, a great trading nation that does business with the merchants of the earth. That is the theme that is repeated over and over about the nation/city of Rev 18.

Rev 17 is about a global society that is decadent, hedonistic, clearly anti-Christian, and murderous, where life is cheap and sex is easy. A woman rules over this, but not as head-of-state. This woman is more like a high priestess or goddess.

Of course pop star Madonna comes immediately to mind when looking at this woman. Only she have fans dared to call a 'goddess' and she is clearly high priestess of the Kabbalah faith. It boggles the mind that no one can see her for what she is now since her mock Jesus-on-the-cross act during her 2006 tour. In any event, the 'woman' (also called a 'whore') rides on a scarlet beast (scarlet is the colour of adultery). The beast has seven heads and ten horns, which is an obvious depiction of the kingdom of the beast and the ten world leaders who ally themselves with him, seven willingly and three by force and subjugation.

This beast kingdom many believe will arise in Europe. It is little wonder that Madonna has made Europe, and the UK, her home and shuns America for the most part. Europe will be 'where all the action is.'

She will become drunk with the blood of Christians. This may be either figurative or literal. It *could* be quite literal indeed. Salome lusted for the decapitated head of John the Baptist. Likewise, this woman, who may indeed be Madonna in a later stage of her life, will lust to see Christians put to death. As in the days of Ishtar, human sacrifice will once again be practised openly.

This whore is also called 'Mother of Harlots.' This is plural. The whore is patterned after the Babylonian goddess Ishtar and the global Babylon is called Mystery due to the many mystery cults that will be in it, as was true of Babylonia. Note that Kabbalah is a mystery religion. A woman was selected to be the living incarnation of Ishtar, thus Ishtar was a 'living goddess.'

Ishtar, a whore goddess, had a stable of young girls/young women who not only served her but were prepared to step in for her to service worshippers through the act of coitus or oral sex and also step into her exalted position if needs be. These young women were called 'entu.' The whore is thus a 'mother of harlots' not because she gives birth to harlots, but because she raises harlots and grooms harlots to be her stand-ins and one day for one of them to take her place.

Anyone can see today that the so-called 'pop tarts' like Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Miley Cyrus, and others are all in some way part of Madonna's stable of harlots, modern-day 'entu.'

Well, I hope with that I have made clear the differences between the 'whore'/'woman'/'mother of harlots' in Rev 17 and the 'queen' in Rev 18. In addition they both die quite a bit differently.

"Cast a cold eye
On life, on death,
Horseman, pass by!"

-- William Butler Yeats
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Darkcomet
Moderator



United Kingdom
596 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  05:43:47 AM  Show Profile Send Darkcomet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rumour's have been ciculating that Madonna said something strange during her Sticky & Sweet concert(not sure how many time's she has done this). Apparently just before she sang Hung Up she said
"On the 29th move the Queen will topple the King".

Could this have any link to the Gabriel's Revelation article on the Viewpoint page about the blowing of the trumpet's?




You must be logged in to see this link.
That is supposed to happen on the 29th of September 2008.
Just a thought anyway.

If you tremble indignation
at every injustice
then you are a comrade of mine.
- Ernesto Che Guevara -




Edited by - Darkcomet on Sep 17 2008 05:54:03 AM
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thomsop
Junior Member



United Kingdom
95 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  09:33:26 AM  Show Profile Send thomsop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darkcomet,

You must be logged in to see this link.

During her Cardiff tour 2008 there's a giant chess set behind her as she's singing Hung Up and if you slide the slider along to 1min 43secs I think she says "In exactly 29 moves the Queen will topple the King".

Edited by - thomsop on Sep 17 2008 12:02:47 PM
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Darkcomet
Moderator



United Kingdom
596 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  04:18:29 AM  Show Profile Send Darkcomet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it just me or does anyone else find Sarah Palin scary as hell?
Without her glasses on she looks like an older version of Britney Spears, and oddly enough she is rather kind of sexy. Though her image of a gun toting, moose killing huntress would have me running a mile. *LOL*



If you tremble indignation
at every injustice
then you are a comrade of mine.
- Ernesto Che Guevara -



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KAT
New Member



United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  08:50:34 AM  Show Profile Send KAT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi everyone,

The Madonna Lyric thing is interesting and with my limited take on chess I had an idea.

As most of us will be aware there are books and books of the moves played in chess games and often these ( for want of a better term )"set plays" seem to get given names ie: The Kasparov Gambit, The Sebaski faint ( I am making them up by the way cuz I don't know any of the proper names).

I am guessing here but there must be (at least)one that results in (or has in it )the Queen checking or even checkmates (probably Checkmate as she sings "Topple the King")the King.

I would like to know what the name of that play/set of moves/game is.
I think it could be enlightening.

Knowing the human race as you do,
Why would you not believe in conspiracy theories..? :K.T.
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KAT
New Member



United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  08:54:32 AM  Show Profile Send KAT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and Darkcomet, I am with you, scary and attractive.

Its when you look into her views she gets realy frightning.

Knowing the human race as you do,
Why would you not believe in conspiracy theories..? :K.T.
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Rainbow Skull
New Member



69 Posts

Posted - Nov 13 2008 :  1:52:14 PM  Show Profile Send Rainbow Skull a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Michaelpops ....THIS ONES FOR YOU!



The world is full of people
who talk the talk
But how many of us
walk the walk

Edited by - Rainbow Skull on Nov 13 2008 2:10:52 PM
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